I would like to preface this post by saying that in principle I don’t have any problems with characters committing acts of idiocy or self-sabotage to advance a story or even to promote a particular message. However, regardless of what the authorial intentions are I reserve my right as a viewer (and the occasional dabbler in fiction) to make my own judgments regarding the efficacy of plot devices and plot points especially as it impacts on characterization. While I concede that character choices and behaviours are open to more than one interpretation, ambiguity, deliberate or otherwise, can pose storytelling problems.
Aug 25, 2022·edited Aug 25, 2022Liked by 40somethingahjumma
Queen Lily has spoken! I promise to be back because we are so similar in our thoughts on what has panned out. I have not had a chance to write a comment to your previous ones either, because I've spent basically 7k writing out my frustrations in various ways that I need to clean up and losing sleep over being upset. Lily, HALP. LOL. Hopefully I'll catch you later, friend :)
Aug 25, 2022·edited Aug 25, 2022Liked by 40somethingahjumma
Long time no see, Lily! It’s me again. *internally sobs and is so mad still at the drama*
I remember your comment on MDL about the ending not being bad compared to many others, and I absolutely agree. What hurts though is the potential of how great it could have been. I’ll talk more about that in your later posts when you comment, because I noticed the previous writing you did was for 3 episodes. This one I am reading it as 2.5. My guess is that your next one is 54b to the end?
There was so much storytelling and character problems or inconsistencies for me after their separation. It felt like a completely newbie team writing the latter parts of the drama, or simply that team did not understand the assignment and failed/slept on the job.
Thank you for pointing out the misery that CSS went through when her best friend got married. Yes, CSS is grieving so she can’t bear to be around people who are in love and happy, but what happened to someone like Qiqi who probably eventually would have barreled in as her BFF to drag her out to live a little. Where was that camaraderie of calling out your friend when you needed to for her well-being. CSS can still grieve and be upset, but she could have done it in the company of her loved ones. BUT NO! for five years is really odd to me. Someone could grieve for 5 years and find ways to move forward, not on. Given that others might argue that she was 15 at the time, fine, but by the time she’s 20, okay, even more reason to find ways to move forward because back then, life expectancy was short to begin with…
It upset me that all the adults let her be when she needed them the most. I thought the exact same thing about how the empress, while kind, it was to a fault, looking at how her children turned out, was the worst role model for CSS. Empress does play the victim a bit too long, and I felt CSS needed someone to knock some sense into her, like Consort Yue. I felt the empress’ scenes with her dying dragged on and on for far too long too. LOLLLL you counted 14 minutes. Me: omggg this is taking forever, can we just hurry up now.
Even a friendship between CSS and 3rd prince was plausible to me. At this point, I actually felt like YS could have been eliminated too…and then what he was doing throughout the drama of part 2 could easily have been relegated to someone else like 3rd prince. Need an edict issued to escort the Cheng Family to prison with dignity, have 3rd prince do this. Need someone to take CSS into jail so she could visit her family, have 3rd prince do this. 3rd prince plays an important role and they could have given him more screen time like that. Yuan Shen didn’t even have enough time to truly be the 2nd male lead. You are right in that he’s an afterthought to the show.
There was 5 years of separation between CSS and Zisheng. And 5 years of emotion and time that the drama could have done better to convey and show the depth of their love and longing if one is to believe how much they mean to each other still. Building a relationship means being able to be open to growth and healing. When something awful happens, and the relationship is meaningful, the focus is to understand someone’s perspective without trying to punish or win.
UGHH, I am so mad that given what Zisheng has felt with regret and sorrow during the 5 years separation, I would have thought he would understand the urgency of losing a loved one, which would light a fire under his butt to more than ever, take the time to let people whom he loves know before it’s too late. If anything, it should have propelled him to take action even more after coming back.
I wish the form of counsel didn’t come from LJT, even though what she said made the most common sense and logical thing to Shaosheng.
Zisheng is a selfless character to me too. Because while he acted out his revenge, he didn’t want to hurt the Cheng family nor Shaosheng. And he took calculated measures even back then and now, for the good of the country, to instill a capable ruler in 3rd prince. He knew what the country needed, the big picture and the greater good as you mentioned.
So many plot holes and inconsistencies near the end, my heart and head hurts. My running document about the drama has 10k at the moment, and more than half of it is my rage over the latter episodes. It feels like a migraine that I am asking for thinking of what I’ll have to clean up before sharing.
With that said, and thank you for your time in reading my long posts, I hope to hear from you soon regarding the end. Thank you for soothing my raging soul where I don’t have to feel so alone in how I see the story and its potential.
I know a lot of people are saying what Zisheng did was awful and they shouldn't have gotten back together. All i saw was a young man burdened with guilt of being alive when he shouldn't have been carrying a burden that could have broken him.
The noble idiocy on both Zisheng part and the wallowing in misery on NiaoNiao's part was totally unnecessary. After the revenge was done and SS went to meet him, he explained why he had to do it at that time, there was no other time they were able to meet privately. The empress bringing SS out after asking HBY that question was also wrong. What was she trying to achieve? The adult should have helped them to sort their issues by allowing them to meet privately. About the abandonment, I won't lie that I really understand that. When they were at the edge of the cliff, the General was hell bent on killing Zisheng. So SS swearing that she won't forgive him was totally uncalled for. Was Zisheng was supposed to allow her to die for his sins? Live together, die together was not a reasonable plan.
If anything what I believed is that SS felt used, and that is a reason for the breakup I could get behind.
At the end of the day, his revenge has higher ramifications but that was never his plan. He could have killed the Ling guy all this years but he wanted evidence to present to court but that didn't pan out. Everybody connected to the case is dead, with him and his father's murderer all that is left.
At the end of the day to me, they both didn't fight for their love, SS in being stubborn without seeing the bigger picture of the whole situation, HBY deciding to wallow in guilt for using her. What has happened as happened, if they truly care for each other then a little bit of bending is always necessary.
All that will be left when they are older is regret and unhappiness of what could have been.
I was bothered by the empress' purpose in doing what she did too! High five! And I thought the same thing, like what was even a plausible way out of this when HBY was being hunted by that other general. :( This right here: "At the end of the day to me, they both didn't fight for their love, SS in being stubborn without seeing the bigger picture of the whole situation, HBY deciding to wallow in guilt for using her. "
People at that time took oaths very seriously. This was in the novel in ch 133. "If he doesn't leave me, I shall never forsake him". With the 2nd impassioned speech - if you dare abandon me today, I will never forgive you - CSS was giving LBY a 2nd chance to bind himself to their oath. That's why the empress had to ask Zisheng that question with CSS in the background. It was for CSS to confirm a 3rd time that she did not hear LBY wrong, that he was indeed abandoning her.
When everything else is falling apart and you're hurt and devastated, you can only hold on to your pride when all else was taken from you. That's why CSS chose to seclude herself with the empress. Aside from not wanting to hear the mockery from all the jealous bitches sour-graping over LBY, she knew deep inside that she would not be moving on from LBY anytime soon. Also, she may not want to affect her family with her depressed mood. And it was her show of loyalty to the empress who she treats as her mother.
I feel that the separation, while it may normally seem an act of noble idiocy, in LLTG it was a necessary evil since LBY did in fact need to atone for using the tiger seal to implicate the crown prince, since one of its consequence was the deposition of the empress. In the novel, the banishment was 7 years but Empress Xuan was dying so it was shortened to 5 years. Also, LBY earned enough credit waging war at the border during the 5 years to satisfy even the officials in court who'd dare accuse the emperor of favoritism.
While I feel that the drama did not evoke the same heartbreak during the separation and reunion arc as when I read the google-translated novel (it was 20+ chapters in the novel), the script writers did enough to make the drama one of the best I've watched so far, with a satisfying last scene. It is always a problem with both kdramas and cdramas, anyway. They always fumble at the end.
Call me cynical if you like but I think the writers are rather selective in how oaths are broken or not broken in this story. I'm fairly certain too that he didn't want her following her into exile and she probably would have. In some ways I think that would have been preferable for both than languishing separately in different locations.
Someone definitely needed to stage an intervention for CSS, and I agree that the Empress is the last person who would do so. Despite all of her wonderful traits, she is passive to a fault and over indulges her children and CSS. However, I understand why an utterly heartbroken and depressed CSS chooses to withdraw from the world and isolate herself with the Empress--it's her safe space, since the Empress has done nothing but shower her with love and affection. (Unfortunately their relationship is a bit co-dependent, too, and during those five years, it does more harm than good.) But in doing so, I also felt like the writers were trying too hard to bring CSS and her mother's relationship full circle; Yuanyi left CSS behind out of loyalty and now CSS gives Yuanyi a taste of her own medicine.
I felt Jitong's reappearance was completely unnecessary, but perhaps the writers thought a love rival would be the wake up call CSS needed. I haven't watched the final two episodes yet so I very likely could be wrong, but so far it seems to be a bit formulaic and predictable as we go down the checklist of people and relationships to resolve. Have a grudge against CSS? Get in line and wait your turn. It's like we're crossing people off a list here.
Queen Lily has spoken! I promise to be back because we are so similar in our thoughts on what has panned out. I have not had a chance to write a comment to your previous ones either, because I've spent basically 7k writing out my frustrations in various ways that I need to clean up and losing sleep over being upset. Lily, HALP. LOL. Hopefully I'll catch you later, friend :)
No worries dear. Thanks for the support.
Long time no see, Lily! It’s me again. *internally sobs and is so mad still at the drama*
I remember your comment on MDL about the ending not being bad compared to many others, and I absolutely agree. What hurts though is the potential of how great it could have been. I’ll talk more about that in your later posts when you comment, because I noticed the previous writing you did was for 3 episodes. This one I am reading it as 2.5. My guess is that your next one is 54b to the end?
There was so much storytelling and character problems or inconsistencies for me after their separation. It felt like a completely newbie team writing the latter parts of the drama, or simply that team did not understand the assignment and failed/slept on the job.
Thank you for pointing out the misery that CSS went through when her best friend got married. Yes, CSS is grieving so she can’t bear to be around people who are in love and happy, but what happened to someone like Qiqi who probably eventually would have barreled in as her BFF to drag her out to live a little. Where was that camaraderie of calling out your friend when you needed to for her well-being. CSS can still grieve and be upset, but she could have done it in the company of her loved ones. BUT NO! for five years is really odd to me. Someone could grieve for 5 years and find ways to move forward, not on. Given that others might argue that she was 15 at the time, fine, but by the time she’s 20, okay, even more reason to find ways to move forward because back then, life expectancy was short to begin with…
It upset me that all the adults let her be when she needed them the most. I thought the exact same thing about how the empress, while kind, it was to a fault, looking at how her children turned out, was the worst role model for CSS. Empress does play the victim a bit too long, and I felt CSS needed someone to knock some sense into her, like Consort Yue. I felt the empress’ scenes with her dying dragged on and on for far too long too. LOLLLL you counted 14 minutes. Me: omggg this is taking forever, can we just hurry up now.
Even a friendship between CSS and 3rd prince was plausible to me. At this point, I actually felt like YS could have been eliminated too…and then what he was doing throughout the drama of part 2 could easily have been relegated to someone else like 3rd prince. Need an edict issued to escort the Cheng Family to prison with dignity, have 3rd prince do this. Need someone to take CSS into jail so she could visit her family, have 3rd prince do this. 3rd prince plays an important role and they could have given him more screen time like that. Yuan Shen didn’t even have enough time to truly be the 2nd male lead. You are right in that he’s an afterthought to the show.
There was 5 years of separation between CSS and Zisheng. And 5 years of emotion and time that the drama could have done better to convey and show the depth of their love and longing if one is to believe how much they mean to each other still. Building a relationship means being able to be open to growth and healing. When something awful happens, and the relationship is meaningful, the focus is to understand someone’s perspective without trying to punish or win.
UGHH, I am so mad that given what Zisheng has felt with regret and sorrow during the 5 years separation, I would have thought he would understand the urgency of losing a loved one, which would light a fire under his butt to more than ever, take the time to let people whom he loves know before it’s too late. If anything, it should have propelled him to take action even more after coming back.
I wish the form of counsel didn’t come from LJT, even though what she said made the most common sense and logical thing to Shaosheng.
Zisheng is a selfless character to me too. Because while he acted out his revenge, he didn’t want to hurt the Cheng family nor Shaosheng. And he took calculated measures even back then and now, for the good of the country, to instill a capable ruler in 3rd prince. He knew what the country needed, the big picture and the greater good as you mentioned.
So many plot holes and inconsistencies near the end, my heart and head hurts. My running document about the drama has 10k at the moment, and more than half of it is my rage over the latter episodes. It feels like a migraine that I am asking for thinking of what I’ll have to clean up before sharing.
With that said, and thank you for your time in reading my long posts, I hope to hear from you soon regarding the end. Thank you for soothing my raging soul where I don’t have to feel so alone in how I see the story and its potential.
I know a lot of people are saying what Zisheng did was awful and they shouldn't have gotten back together. All i saw was a young man burdened with guilt of being alive when he shouldn't have been carrying a burden that could have broken him.
The noble idiocy on both Zisheng part and the wallowing in misery on NiaoNiao's part was totally unnecessary. After the revenge was done and SS went to meet him, he explained why he had to do it at that time, there was no other time they were able to meet privately. The empress bringing SS out after asking HBY that question was also wrong. What was she trying to achieve? The adult should have helped them to sort their issues by allowing them to meet privately. About the abandonment, I won't lie that I really understand that. When they were at the edge of the cliff, the General was hell bent on killing Zisheng. So SS swearing that she won't forgive him was totally uncalled for. Was Zisheng was supposed to allow her to die for his sins? Live together, die together was not a reasonable plan.
If anything what I believed is that SS felt used, and that is a reason for the breakup I could get behind.
At the end of the day, his revenge has higher ramifications but that was never his plan. He could have killed the Ling guy all this years but he wanted evidence to present to court but that didn't pan out. Everybody connected to the case is dead, with him and his father's murderer all that is left.
At the end of the day to me, they both didn't fight for their love, SS in being stubborn without seeing the bigger picture of the whole situation, HBY deciding to wallow in guilt for using her. What has happened as happened, if they truly care for each other then a little bit of bending is always necessary.
All that will be left when they are older is regret and unhappiness of what could have been.
I was bothered by the empress' purpose in doing what she did too! High five! And I thought the same thing, like what was even a plausible way out of this when HBY was being hunted by that other general. :( This right here: "At the end of the day to me, they both didn't fight for their love, SS in being stubborn without seeing the bigger picture of the whole situation, HBY deciding to wallow in guilt for using her. "
People at that time took oaths very seriously. This was in the novel in ch 133. "If he doesn't leave me, I shall never forsake him". With the 2nd impassioned speech - if you dare abandon me today, I will never forgive you - CSS was giving LBY a 2nd chance to bind himself to their oath. That's why the empress had to ask Zisheng that question with CSS in the background. It was for CSS to confirm a 3rd time that she did not hear LBY wrong, that he was indeed abandoning her.
When everything else is falling apart and you're hurt and devastated, you can only hold on to your pride when all else was taken from you. That's why CSS chose to seclude herself with the empress. Aside from not wanting to hear the mockery from all the jealous bitches sour-graping over LBY, she knew deep inside that she would not be moving on from LBY anytime soon. Also, she may not want to affect her family with her depressed mood. And it was her show of loyalty to the empress who she treats as her mother.
I feel that the separation, while it may normally seem an act of noble idiocy, in LLTG it was a necessary evil since LBY did in fact need to atone for using the tiger seal to implicate the crown prince, since one of its consequence was the deposition of the empress. In the novel, the banishment was 7 years but Empress Xuan was dying so it was shortened to 5 years. Also, LBY earned enough credit waging war at the border during the 5 years to satisfy even the officials in court who'd dare accuse the emperor of favoritism.
While I feel that the drama did not evoke the same heartbreak during the separation and reunion arc as when I read the google-translated novel (it was 20+ chapters in the novel), the script writers did enough to make the drama one of the best I've watched so far, with a satisfying last scene. It is always a problem with both kdramas and cdramas, anyway. They always fumble at the end.
Call me cynical if you like but I think the writers are rather selective in how oaths are broken or not broken in this story. I'm fairly certain too that he didn't want her following her into exile and she probably would have. In some ways I think that would have been preferable for both than languishing separately in different locations.
Someone definitely needed to stage an intervention for CSS, and I agree that the Empress is the last person who would do so. Despite all of her wonderful traits, she is passive to a fault and over indulges her children and CSS. However, I understand why an utterly heartbroken and depressed CSS chooses to withdraw from the world and isolate herself with the Empress--it's her safe space, since the Empress has done nothing but shower her with love and affection. (Unfortunately their relationship is a bit co-dependent, too, and during those five years, it does more harm than good.) But in doing so, I also felt like the writers were trying too hard to bring CSS and her mother's relationship full circle; Yuanyi left CSS behind out of loyalty and now CSS gives Yuanyi a taste of her own medicine.
I felt Jitong's reappearance was completely unnecessary, but perhaps the writers thought a love rival would be the wake up call CSS needed. I haven't watched the final two episodes yet so I very likely could be wrong, but so far it seems to be a bit formulaic and predictable as we go down the checklist of people and relationships to resolve. Have a grudge against CSS? Get in line and wait your turn. It's like we're crossing people off a list here.