I’ve been told that I need to read the novel. I’ve never been told that before in all my eight years of watching C dramas. The recommendation comes not because the novel itself is worth reading. I’m sure it is judging from the authorship and popularity but because apparently I don’t understand a certain character — namely Tushan Jing. According to certain members of the viewing public… I would better understand him if I read the novel. Then I would have greater access to his inner life. But that’s not really what’s going on I suspect. I mean, what are they implying? That there’s something wrong with the adaptation? The director? Or worse still, there’s something inadequate about the performance? God forbid. It does beg the question though. Why don’t I need to read the novel to say understand the inner life of Xiao Yao, Xiang Liu, or even Cang Xuan?
Thanks so much for this post and highlighting such wonderful points!
*whispers* Am I the only one around here shipping TSJ with XY? Honestly I quite surprised myself here because I've found similar or comparable characters in other dramas boring. There's no doubt that Xiang Liu is a very compelling character, but I just couldn't ship him and XY together. Believe me, there were moments I was tempted. Ultimately, I simply couldn't set aside how abusive (physically and emotionally) he was toward her in the beginning. She was still pretty scared of him deep into the drama when they've been friendly and flirty for quite a while. Her fear was still there, and that was the nail in the coffin for me.
As for TSJ, his sincerity toward XY was what won me over, and because I think he's what XY needs. That said, your points about him are all spot on. It makes me wonder if he's that (annoyingly) nice and passive toward his family situation simply for the sake of the plot. Since that's the main thing keeping him and XY apart, maybe the writers felt that element couldn't be addressed too early. If so, it's backfiring because as TSJ drags his feet, so does the show.
I'm looking forward to your thoughts on Part 2 ... and hopefully by then, no one will still be telling you to read the novel ;)
No need to whisper. You're a regular that I value. :D And I'm sure you're not the only one.
It's fine that we don't agree on this point. I just don't buy into the chemistry. I wish I did. I'm rather disappointed that I can't because it would be easier. Hopefully by the end of Part 2, I'll be onboard. But even if I'm not, I don't regret watching this show..
I don't see the early Xiao Yao - Xiang Liu interactions as abuse. He's a military strategist for the Chenrong army and she's someone who trespassed into his domain. In times of war, a person can be executed on sight for spying regardless of whether or not they actually are. It's a military camp so the rules are stricter. She tried to poison his pet and him. Plus she was lying to him and acting suspiciously. He certainly sensed she was concealing information from him. So from his perspective and he's a nine-headed serpent, I can see why he's untrusting and they weren't in any kind of romantic, close relationship. I think she's lucky that he didn't kill her on the spot.
He's a fascinating multi-layered character regardless of whether he gets the girl. I'm not really hung up about who ends up who after watching the last 9 episodes.
Aug 28, 2023·edited Aug 28, 2023Liked by 40somethingahjumma
WOOHOO! Okay, long time no talk/see/lurk. Hi Lily! I haven’t watched as many of the same dramas as you, or much to be honest, but when this article of yours popped into my inbox, I was thrilled to see your discussion of LYF. It cracks me up that people told you to read the novel, because I am here to tell you, you’re not missing out. You don’t need to read the novel to understand TSJ! I feel if you had ventured into the novel, it would just make the case worse in my opinion for TSJ. LOL. In fact, reading the novel would only prove, in my opinion, why XL was the best character of the men in the author’s story. And to me, who loved XY the most. Anyway, there are so many frustrating things about TSJ that I won’t even bother writing out since I feel you absolutely nailed in this analysis of the men, and why he’s such a frustrating character to me. And the fact that you had mentioned in your post how TSJ feels like a scoundrel…same, same. Some of his trusted people around him are manipulative to XY in the way they tell her about his (TSJ) love for her too. His devotion also doesn’t seem genuine to me, but I think that’s what the author tries to present…Or I am just insanely bias and colored in my view of him and absolutely can’t stand him.
I usually don’t care for toxic guys either, so when you broke down your thoughts with amuse-bouche regarding the way XL was towards XY at the beginning, HOLY SMOKES, THANK YOU. I think my shipper heart was already assuming they would have a close relationship, so I totally felt his actions could be forgiven later on. But this makes my heart happier now that I totally missed how he was seeing her as an enemy initially and makes sense the way he treated her. Like she did try to poison his pet! But many of his actions in the book made him my favorite. When the drama came out, I knew I couldn’t put myself through the heartbreak of the story, so I was joking with a friend that the story sure “lost me forever” too. Thank you for spending time writing this. I chose not to watch, but another friend of mine watched it and would text me almost daily about why she loved XL, so I felt at least with her, I had that camaraderie without having to endure the show. I am glad there are no regrets for you watching, and while I am not, I sincerely look forward to hearing your final thoughts down the line. Here’s to hoping our paths will cross again on another drama so I can join in on your discussions, because I do miss being on the same drama with you! 😊
Hello back to you. Great to hear from you after a long spell. :D Thanks for contributing to this discussion especially from the point of view of someone who has actually read the novel.
I was fairly confident in my analysis because I deal in facts. I don't make judgements based on how I feel and I certainly don't make things up to suit a particular narrative. All I did essentially is look at his behaviour and pull everything together in some coherent fashion. Inconsistencies in character is always the most interesting because they tell you so much more what the writer is up to. I never set out to dislike Tushan Jing and I thought he was generally harmless as Ye Shiqi. Most of the time he was friendzoned in those early days so I was rather surprised to find out that he's the one she ends up with. Even though he was gentle and slavishly devoted, he seemed helpless most of the time. He couldn't even stop Xiang Liu from taking off with Xiao Yao. I also thought that there was a streak of insecurity in him even before he confessed and I still think he confessed on impulse because he was worried about the competition. There's a school of thought that him forgiving his brother for torturing him is an indication of strength. I'm not sure how one can make that leap. He's just someone who doesn't rock the boat and he's loyal to family regardless. Strength is when a person does something that is actually difficult for them rather than what comes naturally/easily.
I think we all to some degree bring our lenses and baggage to any kind of character. I have to be careful about trying to contradict people about their accusations that Xiang Liu was abusive in those early days because I know that there are people out there who have genuinely experienced abuse and some of those scenes could be distressing. However, it is only fair, I think, to put things into context. The actions of people in historical dramas should be judged in their context. I'm leery of making moral equivalences.
Some of my reactions to Tushan Jing comes from the fact that he's characterized as being "perfect" which you'll understand why I have a hard time with. I am curious and would like to ask you as someone who has read the book why is it that Tushan Jing who is supposed to be one of the best chess players in the land got outsmarted by his family with such a rudimentary trick? That's one of the most baffling aspects of the character. Also why in 15 years he did nothing about the "fiancee"?
Aug 29, 2023·edited Aug 29, 2023Liked by 40somethingahjumma
I love your discussions, and I sound like a broken record, but I always get so excited seeing your comments too, because it’s like having a longtime friend chatting and catching up, for us…with dramas.
To be transparent, I only got to about 60% of the novel before I dropped it. And when it was done translating, I went back to read the last two chapters, and the heartbreaking epilogue. Masochist that I am.
You are accurate in your analysis for sure. When I think of TSJ, even at the beginning, there was really no connection on my part to him. Sometimes I think of TSJ like the even duller version of Guo Jing (LEGEND OF THE CONDOR HEROES series, which I am sure you’re aware of). Guo Jing was not the sharpest tool in the shed as we already know, but I could easily root for him with all his flaws. I was waiting for TSJ to win me over eventually in the novel, but he never got a chance. He was a passive and bland character that I know many others will still argue that he had his complexities from his trauma. But one can argue the same for all the other men in the harem. Many fans of TSJ love him I think because XY as headstrong as she is, TSJ will always go along with her and support her. That’s lackluster in a story because I want to believe someone compatible with XY would be an equal. (From the novel, I shipped XL with XY since I felt they were soulmates.)
I cannot begin to remember how someone as intelligent as TSJ was outwitted by his family, or didn’t deal with the fiancée...maybe it was simply because he was too “kind and naïve”. At times, he felt like a cardboard character to me where he just lets bygones be bygones without doing the work of it to grow? Maybe that’s his way of coping with things, to just brush it under the rug and sleep it off. I don’t know if I made sense. (I think it’s safe in your space here, that there are no TSJ fans coming after me with pitchforks…LOL!) I almost feel like he’s a character many pity, betrayed by everyone around him except for XY in a way. So then there’s the thought of “it’s only right TSJ is the one, after all he’s been through, with no one else who loves him, he only has XY.”
In all fairness, XY herself was toxic/problematic at times too. She wanted others to give up everything for her, but I don’t think she was ever able to even consider a compromise. If we look at most of the characters in LYF, they all went through horrific abuse and torture, and suffered from their trauma. XY, XL, and TSJ are all going through PTSD. XY is just more forgiven because the story centers around her as the female lead, and I get the sense that Yang Zhi’s performance helps the audience be more sympathetic to her plight.
There are things I hope the drama will change from the novel, (obviously the endgame of the pairing won’t change. hahaha) but I don’t want to spoil anything until you’re done seeing season 2. As vague as I can be, I hope the drama will at least let XY be more aware of what XL did because he loved her.
You're right to notice that because a lot of the focus has been on the men that Xiao Yao who is at the heart of this somehow gets lost in the weeds. Very early on in MDL I was critical of her choices. Still am, in fact. I agree that there's something unhealthy in insisting that the other party give up everything for her. Just yesterday I was reading a review by PeachBlossom and she made a really good point that Xiao Yao is looking for an "unequal" relationship. It confirmed something that had already been gnawing at the back of my mind. She wants to be the one to call the shots in the relationship, to dictate the terms. That's why Shiqi aka Jing fits the bill. She chose him in part because he is willing to dance to her tune regardless. It's something that I've always been uncomfortable about her and Jing. That slavish devotion feels off and perhaps that's why he comes across to some of us as "emasculated" for want of a better word. He's a support act and it's been the case from the start. That's what she's looking for. Someone that's easy to control. A strong masculine man with his own ideas of how the world works is certainly much harder to contend with. Part of my resistance to canon pairing is that I prefer to see a far more equal relationship, one between two people who challenge each other to be better, to see the world differently because in reality that's what most relationships are like. It's also frankly more exciting to watch as well.
In a way this makes me glad that Xiang Liu has chosen to take his own path. To hold on to his principles and to make good on his oaths and vows. This is what makes him very attractive to many of us.
Aug 29, 2023·edited Aug 29, 2023Liked by 40somethingahjumma
Okay I hope you don't mind I jump in here because this is a great discussion. (Hi, Kathleen! And don't worry, I won't come after you with a pitchfork just because you can't stand TSJ, lol.) As someone who is shipping TSJ x XY, I also don't understand how TSJ is considered the perfect guy for her or the perfect character. I do think, though, that given her distorted perspective on relationships, he's the one she needs. Maybe as her character grows (I hope she does) that would change.
Like you both have pointed out, TSJ is passive to a fault and in a manner that contradicts his intelligence. He's willfully turning a blind eye to those who don't have his best interests at heart and are actively seeking to harm him. This also drives me crazy and frustrates me to no end because I think the story is worse for it. It's kept me from watching the last 5-ish episodes, partly because I was anticipating an overused and banal plot trope that would be used to keep TSJ x XY apart and partly because it could've been avoided.
As for Xiang Liu, I appreciate the context that he considered XY an enemy and acted accordingly ruthless. Context is always important and something that should be considered, which is why I still very much like him as a character, but it doesn't erase the end result. I also do recognize he does A LOT for her that goes a long way to make up for how he was in the beginning. But for me it's not enough to overcome the end result. At least not yet. It's also why I wouldn't ship CX and XY since he tortures her as well (and in the drama, I honestly just don't see that she has an iota of romantic interest in him).
I don't really think that Xiao Yao sees Cang Xuan as anything more than a brother. If he had found her earlier and there wasn't "competition" for her affections. Maybe he would have had a chance. Maybe. :D
Can I also add that Cang Xuan's character frustrates me to no end? For someone whose main/only goal is to protect his sisters, he's been pretty darn inept. (Sorry, CX fans.)
Ohhh, during my lunch break, I went to read PeachBlossom’s review for fun too! Totally true that XY is looking for a relationship where she wears the pants. In some strange way, she’s held to her own ideals, but it just seems that she would be content being bored and never challenged enough to grow. The story would definitely be more exciting if XY was with someone on equal footing for me. Kind of like LOVE LIKE THE GALAXY. Imagine if this was Shaoshang choosing Lou Yao…LOL
It sounds like you already know how the story ends, Lily? Or is it more so, you know who XY ends up with?
Yes, that’s one of the many things about XL too. He chose his own path and yet still did everything in his power because of his love for XY too. I am hoping this wonderful actor gets more leading roles, because the calibre of is acting is impressive with just the flick of his eyes and the myriad of emotions they hold. (this just me watching music videos and fan made videos of course. LOL)
Also, hello amuse-bouche! Totally curious when you’ll finish the last 5 eps. and wrap up season 1 of LYF.
I haven't read PeachBlossom's review yet, but given XY's own history and subsequent insecurities that developed, it makes sense to me she wants the safe option ... and that's TSJ. It reminds me of the saying "Mr. Right" vs "Mr. Right Now." It's safe, and therefore appealing to her, *because* she wears the pants.
LOL thanks for bringing up Lou Yao ... because there's no way I would've ever shipped him with Shaoshang.
Right from the start, I hated the fact that this is an adaptation because without any justification for it, the book readers all insisted we must love Tushan Jing (because apparently, he is a walking green flag). While CX is the supposedly the devil's incarnate, XL is the ultimate boyfriend. I had to rewatch the first few episodes because I thought I was missing something. All I saw was a "brother" that didn't recognise the sister, another guy is forcefully biting her without her consent, and a guy who walks around with a mopey smile on his face.
If I had to read a book to fully understand a character then either the actor was given little to work with, or the actor couldn't fully bring out his characterisation and all he could do is this bland imaginary boyfriend with no depth.
I just got frustrated that there was oomph from the other guys in the harem than the one that is supposed to be the master strategist.
I'm just wondering if there's some kind of subjective interpretation of the character going on because I do know others who have read the book and also find him hard to root for. Maybe as I've suggested it's the actor.
For me he's a weak character with not a lot of personality. He's just so weepy that I feel cringey. I don't want to marry any of these guys, I just want to be immersed in a good story.
Just wanted to pop in to give this post some love. LOL. I had referenced it on a reddit thread for someone who was having a hard time wrapping their head around the fact that XL was even called the 3rd male lead. I sent the person here to your post, and the person wrote back on reddit instead, but thought you should know :) https://www.reddit.com/r/CDrama/comments/197h8tg/comment/ki3s2h0/?context=3
Omg you've spelled out exactly what I've felt with Tushan Jing...
To me it seems like TSJ and XY is a love story that exists in theory and not practice?
I often feel like she's most naturally attracted to xiang liu and keeps trying to suppress it. Also it seems like they have a stronger personality connection/bond despite Xiang Liu being an asshole to her a lot of times. I feel like they both could relate to each other more than TSJ and XY.
even as wen xiaoliu I could feel her attraction towards him. and she seems most happiest with him.
Tushan Jings love is sort of like a response to the care she gave him and for saving his life. It seems like an obligation or debt. And when she proposes to her in the beginning she seems to just considers it pragmatically. and sort of wills herself to love him because he pledged himself to never abandon her. Otherwise she's only ever seen him as the guy she saved and a good companion. And on top of the red flag that he proposed to her without a solid plan to break his engagement, he never told her that he knew she was a woman. I don't get the vibe that he's enraptured by her personality. More like he was grateful she saved him and that because she was a woman he sort of imprinted on her (borrowing twilight vocab lol) . And over time his gratefulness to her is what makes him love her.
and yes...i thought it was hilarious too that he's supposedly the best chess player in town but can't seem to use any of those skills in real life.
and from Xiaoyaos side it seems like she's trying to make the love happen because on paper tushan jing is such a good guy . i can't see the passion or chemistry. it feels like an arranged marriage where both parties try their best to like the other. Whereas with xiang liu their connection is palpable. I get the feeling that xiaoyao is lying to herself and doesn't realise how much of her own feelings she suppressed.
I don't like that he mistreated her a lot in the beginning but they have a lovely chemistry...
with cangxuan, it's sad. I do feel for him. it's pretty clear xiaoyao will never see him in that light. But at the same time her loyalty to him is the strongest. It was nice seeing beautiful sibling love. Also while it's hurtful for cangxuan, he has strong sibling love and attachment towards her. and I like that they show that, that sort of love is not inferior to romantic love. People think it doesn't exist but I've seen it in my own family. My dad is very close to his sister. Unfortunately my mum suffered because he always put her first (they had an arranged marriage. I think you can guess my ethnicity hah ).
I think it's beautiful and a testament to how pure cangxuans love is that he loves her and protects her as a brother.
and they're in a catch 22. to protect her he needs to marry many women from powerful families and can't be her one and only. if she accepts him, he can't give her the life she wants.
I really like his portrayal. despite desiring her as a romantic partner, he doesn't seem lecherous. I can feel brotherly love from him for the most part.
tushan jing also comes across as spineless and overly polite.
when he was ye shiqi and came to know xiang liu was bullying her, he'd sort of just accept it and be tormented by it. I just don't like that reaction...maybe someone else can explain it better.
overall I really felt nothing for him. when he died, when he had a kid ...nothing...
Thanks for your comment. It's an impressive screed that's for sure.
For me it feels like Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao is the classic romantic pairing. It's the bad first impressions which leads to some antagonism which after plenty of negotiation results in a more equal dynamic. Without some measure of conflict between a couple, the relationship doesn't feel tested and developed.
I am glad I saw your post. Honestly, you will probably hate Jing in the novel more lol. Jing is really an unlikable character, he is quite manipulative and two faced. He appears to be good but just a scoundrel who will never let XY grow without the need to be in control. He wants her to be within his reach. But his character was improved in the drama, so it kinda made it worst again. The acting was not giving for this character.
As for Xiang Liu, he got downgraded. Portrayed as harsh but XL is an aloof type and quite cold but definitely the warmest inside. I wished this drama didn’t remove all XY and XLs pivotal moments because in the book XY actually loves him and just uses Jing to cover her feelings since she knew he is not the man suitable to dream. But she dreamed of him.
The author loves Xiang Liu and I can feel it by the way she develops his character from ground to up. You’re right they are people who are called to make greater sacrifice. And in this book, it is XL. He is meant to end the war and conflict to bring security and for people to move forward.
I wished the drama made a back story of the war far more. People will get the story better. XL is a bred of war and has witnessed death.so his decisions doesn’t revolve to one person.
XL is the second the general of Chengrong the first was XY’s biological father. Which he happens to know as well.
I'm glad you came by and put forward your POV. I too had a sense that Tushan Jing could be seen as being manipulative because he wants to have a bet each way. But in the drama he definitely comes across to me as weak and lacking in conviction. It is interesting and thanks for bringing this to my attention that the novel is far more sophisticated and nuanced than I've been led to believe.
I just love how you explained these thoughts that have been in my mind for a while! Glad I found your blog ♥️
Thanks for signing on. Glad to be of service. Post when you can.
Thank you so much! We miss your inputs on the MDL board!
Sunday's my rest day -- supposedly and this post took me ages to finish. Plus I have a podcast to upload.
It was a wonderful piece! Hope you had plenty of rest! I'll also check out your podcast!
Thanks so much for this post and highlighting such wonderful points!
*whispers* Am I the only one around here shipping TSJ with XY? Honestly I quite surprised myself here because I've found similar or comparable characters in other dramas boring. There's no doubt that Xiang Liu is a very compelling character, but I just couldn't ship him and XY together. Believe me, there were moments I was tempted. Ultimately, I simply couldn't set aside how abusive (physically and emotionally) he was toward her in the beginning. She was still pretty scared of him deep into the drama when they've been friendly and flirty for quite a while. Her fear was still there, and that was the nail in the coffin for me.
As for TSJ, his sincerity toward XY was what won me over, and because I think he's what XY needs. That said, your points about him are all spot on. It makes me wonder if he's that (annoyingly) nice and passive toward his family situation simply for the sake of the plot. Since that's the main thing keeping him and XY apart, maybe the writers felt that element couldn't be addressed too early. If so, it's backfiring because as TSJ drags his feet, so does the show.
I'm looking forward to your thoughts on Part 2 ... and hopefully by then, no one will still be telling you to read the novel ;)
No need to whisper. You're a regular that I value. :D And I'm sure you're not the only one.
It's fine that we don't agree on this point. I just don't buy into the chemistry. I wish I did. I'm rather disappointed that I can't because it would be easier. Hopefully by the end of Part 2, I'll be onboard. But even if I'm not, I don't regret watching this show..
I don't see the early Xiao Yao - Xiang Liu interactions as abuse. He's a military strategist for the Chenrong army and she's someone who trespassed into his domain. In times of war, a person can be executed on sight for spying regardless of whether or not they actually are. It's a military camp so the rules are stricter. She tried to poison his pet and him. Plus she was lying to him and acting suspiciously. He certainly sensed she was concealing information from him. So from his perspective and he's a nine-headed serpent, I can see why he's untrusting and they weren't in any kind of romantic, close relationship. I think she's lucky that he didn't kill her on the spot.
He's a fascinating multi-layered character regardless of whether he gets the girl. I'm not really hung up about who ends up who after watching the last 9 episodes.
WOOHOO! Okay, long time no talk/see/lurk. Hi Lily! I haven’t watched as many of the same dramas as you, or much to be honest, but when this article of yours popped into my inbox, I was thrilled to see your discussion of LYF. It cracks me up that people told you to read the novel, because I am here to tell you, you’re not missing out. You don’t need to read the novel to understand TSJ! I feel if you had ventured into the novel, it would just make the case worse in my opinion for TSJ. LOL. In fact, reading the novel would only prove, in my opinion, why XL was the best character of the men in the author’s story. And to me, who loved XY the most. Anyway, there are so many frustrating things about TSJ that I won’t even bother writing out since I feel you absolutely nailed in this analysis of the men, and why he’s such a frustrating character to me. And the fact that you had mentioned in your post how TSJ feels like a scoundrel…same, same. Some of his trusted people around him are manipulative to XY in the way they tell her about his (TSJ) love for her too. His devotion also doesn’t seem genuine to me, but I think that’s what the author tries to present…Or I am just insanely bias and colored in my view of him and absolutely can’t stand him.
I usually don’t care for toxic guys either, so when you broke down your thoughts with amuse-bouche regarding the way XL was towards XY at the beginning, HOLY SMOKES, THANK YOU. I think my shipper heart was already assuming they would have a close relationship, so I totally felt his actions could be forgiven later on. But this makes my heart happier now that I totally missed how he was seeing her as an enemy initially and makes sense the way he treated her. Like she did try to poison his pet! But many of his actions in the book made him my favorite. When the drama came out, I knew I couldn’t put myself through the heartbreak of the story, so I was joking with a friend that the story sure “lost me forever” too. Thank you for spending time writing this. I chose not to watch, but another friend of mine watched it and would text me almost daily about why she loved XL, so I felt at least with her, I had that camaraderie without having to endure the show. I am glad there are no regrets for you watching, and while I am not, I sincerely look forward to hearing your final thoughts down the line. Here’s to hoping our paths will cross again on another drama so I can join in on your discussions, because I do miss being on the same drama with you! 😊
Hi Kathleen.
Hello back to you. Great to hear from you after a long spell. :D Thanks for contributing to this discussion especially from the point of view of someone who has actually read the novel.
I was fairly confident in my analysis because I deal in facts. I don't make judgements based on how I feel and I certainly don't make things up to suit a particular narrative. All I did essentially is look at his behaviour and pull everything together in some coherent fashion. Inconsistencies in character is always the most interesting because they tell you so much more what the writer is up to. I never set out to dislike Tushan Jing and I thought he was generally harmless as Ye Shiqi. Most of the time he was friendzoned in those early days so I was rather surprised to find out that he's the one she ends up with. Even though he was gentle and slavishly devoted, he seemed helpless most of the time. He couldn't even stop Xiang Liu from taking off with Xiao Yao. I also thought that there was a streak of insecurity in him even before he confessed and I still think he confessed on impulse because he was worried about the competition. There's a school of thought that him forgiving his brother for torturing him is an indication of strength. I'm not sure how one can make that leap. He's just someone who doesn't rock the boat and he's loyal to family regardless. Strength is when a person does something that is actually difficult for them rather than what comes naturally/easily.
I think we all to some degree bring our lenses and baggage to any kind of character. I have to be careful about trying to contradict people about their accusations that Xiang Liu was abusive in those early days because I know that there are people out there who have genuinely experienced abuse and some of those scenes could be distressing. However, it is only fair, I think, to put things into context. The actions of people in historical dramas should be judged in their context. I'm leery of making moral equivalences.
Some of my reactions to Tushan Jing comes from the fact that he's characterized as being "perfect" which you'll understand why I have a hard time with. I am curious and would like to ask you as someone who has read the book why is it that Tushan Jing who is supposed to be one of the best chess players in the land got outsmarted by his family with such a rudimentary trick? That's one of the most baffling aspects of the character. Also why in 15 years he did nothing about the "fiancee"?
I love your discussions, and I sound like a broken record, but I always get so excited seeing your comments too, because it’s like having a longtime friend chatting and catching up, for us…with dramas.
To be transparent, I only got to about 60% of the novel before I dropped it. And when it was done translating, I went back to read the last two chapters, and the heartbreaking epilogue. Masochist that I am.
You are accurate in your analysis for sure. When I think of TSJ, even at the beginning, there was really no connection on my part to him. Sometimes I think of TSJ like the even duller version of Guo Jing (LEGEND OF THE CONDOR HEROES series, which I am sure you’re aware of). Guo Jing was not the sharpest tool in the shed as we already know, but I could easily root for him with all his flaws. I was waiting for TSJ to win me over eventually in the novel, but he never got a chance. He was a passive and bland character that I know many others will still argue that he had his complexities from his trauma. But one can argue the same for all the other men in the harem. Many fans of TSJ love him I think because XY as headstrong as she is, TSJ will always go along with her and support her. That’s lackluster in a story because I want to believe someone compatible with XY would be an equal. (From the novel, I shipped XL with XY since I felt they were soulmates.)
I cannot begin to remember how someone as intelligent as TSJ was outwitted by his family, or didn’t deal with the fiancée...maybe it was simply because he was too “kind and naïve”. At times, he felt like a cardboard character to me where he just lets bygones be bygones without doing the work of it to grow? Maybe that’s his way of coping with things, to just brush it under the rug and sleep it off. I don’t know if I made sense. (I think it’s safe in your space here, that there are no TSJ fans coming after me with pitchforks…LOL!) I almost feel like he’s a character many pity, betrayed by everyone around him except for XY in a way. So then there’s the thought of “it’s only right TSJ is the one, after all he’s been through, with no one else who loves him, he only has XY.”
In all fairness, XY herself was toxic/problematic at times too. She wanted others to give up everything for her, but I don’t think she was ever able to even consider a compromise. If we look at most of the characters in LYF, they all went through horrific abuse and torture, and suffered from their trauma. XY, XL, and TSJ are all going through PTSD. XY is just more forgiven because the story centers around her as the female lead, and I get the sense that Yang Zhi’s performance helps the audience be more sympathetic to her plight.
There are things I hope the drama will change from the novel, (obviously the endgame of the pairing won’t change. hahaha) but I don’t want to spoil anything until you’re done seeing season 2. As vague as I can be, I hope the drama will at least let XY be more aware of what XL did because he loved her.
You're right to notice that because a lot of the focus has been on the men that Xiao Yao who is at the heart of this somehow gets lost in the weeds. Very early on in MDL I was critical of her choices. Still am, in fact. I agree that there's something unhealthy in insisting that the other party give up everything for her. Just yesterday I was reading a review by PeachBlossom and she made a really good point that Xiao Yao is looking for an "unequal" relationship. It confirmed something that had already been gnawing at the back of my mind. She wants to be the one to call the shots in the relationship, to dictate the terms. That's why Shiqi aka Jing fits the bill. She chose him in part because he is willing to dance to her tune regardless. It's something that I've always been uncomfortable about her and Jing. That slavish devotion feels off and perhaps that's why he comes across to some of us as "emasculated" for want of a better word. He's a support act and it's been the case from the start. That's what she's looking for. Someone that's easy to control. A strong masculine man with his own ideas of how the world works is certainly much harder to contend with. Part of my resistance to canon pairing is that I prefer to see a far more equal relationship, one between two people who challenge each other to be better, to see the world differently because in reality that's what most relationships are like. It's also frankly more exciting to watch as well.
In a way this makes me glad that Xiang Liu has chosen to take his own path. To hold on to his principles and to make good on his oaths and vows. This is what makes him very attractive to many of us.
Okay I hope you don't mind I jump in here because this is a great discussion. (Hi, Kathleen! And don't worry, I won't come after you with a pitchfork just because you can't stand TSJ, lol.) As someone who is shipping TSJ x XY, I also don't understand how TSJ is considered the perfect guy for her or the perfect character. I do think, though, that given her distorted perspective on relationships, he's the one she needs. Maybe as her character grows (I hope she does) that would change.
Like you both have pointed out, TSJ is passive to a fault and in a manner that contradicts his intelligence. He's willfully turning a blind eye to those who don't have his best interests at heart and are actively seeking to harm him. This also drives me crazy and frustrates me to no end because I think the story is worse for it. It's kept me from watching the last 5-ish episodes, partly because I was anticipating an overused and banal plot trope that would be used to keep TSJ x XY apart and partly because it could've been avoided.
As for Xiang Liu, I appreciate the context that he considered XY an enemy and acted accordingly ruthless. Context is always important and something that should be considered, which is why I still very much like him as a character, but it doesn't erase the end result. I also do recognize he does A LOT for her that goes a long way to make up for how he was in the beginning. But for me it's not enough to overcome the end result. At least not yet. It's also why I wouldn't ship CX and XY since he tortures her as well (and in the drama, I honestly just don't see that she has an iota of romantic interest in him).
I don't really think that Xiao Yao sees Cang Xuan as anything more than a brother. If he had found her earlier and there wasn't "competition" for her affections. Maybe he would have had a chance. Maybe. :D
Can I also add that Cang Xuan's character frustrates me to no end? For someone whose main/only goal is to protect his sisters, he's been pretty darn inept. (Sorry, CX fans.)
Where are you up to in your viewing? Have you finished the whole lot?
Grandmother Fox makes TSJ and his fiancee each drink half of the same tonic and then he disappears off the face of the earth. *side eye*
Ohhh, during my lunch break, I went to read PeachBlossom’s review for fun too! Totally true that XY is looking for a relationship where she wears the pants. In some strange way, she’s held to her own ideals, but it just seems that she would be content being bored and never challenged enough to grow. The story would definitely be more exciting if XY was with someone on equal footing for me. Kind of like LOVE LIKE THE GALAXY. Imagine if this was Shaoshang choosing Lou Yao…LOL
It sounds like you already know how the story ends, Lily? Or is it more so, you know who XY ends up with?
Yes, that’s one of the many things about XL too. He chose his own path and yet still did everything in his power because of his love for XY too. I am hoping this wonderful actor gets more leading roles, because the calibre of is acting is impressive with just the flick of his eyes and the myriad of emotions they hold. (this just me watching music videos and fan made videos of course. LOL)
Also, hello amuse-bouche! Totally curious when you’ll finish the last 5 eps. and wrap up season 1 of LYF.
I haven't read PeachBlossom's review yet, but given XY's own history and subsequent insecurities that developed, it makes sense to me she wants the safe option ... and that's TSJ. It reminds me of the saying "Mr. Right" vs "Mr. Right Now." It's safe, and therefore appealing to her, *because* she wears the pants.
LOL thanks for bringing up Lou Yao ... because there's no way I would've ever shipped him with Shaoshang.
Is Jing NOT Lou Yao though in a way? LOL
A bit of both. It's been tough avoiding spoilers. I decided just to embrace all of it as preparation for all the heartbreak.
Right from the start, I hated the fact that this is an adaptation because without any justification for it, the book readers all insisted we must love Tushan Jing (because apparently, he is a walking green flag). While CX is the supposedly the devil's incarnate, XL is the ultimate boyfriend. I had to rewatch the first few episodes because I thought I was missing something. All I saw was a "brother" that didn't recognise the sister, another guy is forcefully biting her without her consent, and a guy who walks around with a mopey smile on his face.
If I had to read a book to fully understand a character then either the actor was given little to work with, or the actor couldn't fully bring out his characterisation and all he could do is this bland imaginary boyfriend with no depth.
I just got frustrated that there was oomph from the other guys in the harem than the one that is supposed to be the master strategist.
I'm just wondering if there's some kind of subjective interpretation of the character going on because I do know others who have read the book and also find him hard to root for. Maybe as I've suggested it's the actor.
For me he's a weak character with not a lot of personality. He's just so weepy that I feel cringey. I don't want to marry any of these guys, I just want to be immersed in a good story.
Just wanted to pop in to give this post some love. LOL. I had referenced it on a reddit thread for someone who was having a hard time wrapping their head around the fact that XL was even called the 3rd male lead. I sent the person here to your post, and the person wrote back on reddit instead, but thought you should know :) https://www.reddit.com/r/CDrama/comments/197h8tg/comment/ki3s2h0/?context=3
Thanks for that. You're such a great support.
Omg you've spelled out exactly what I've felt with Tushan Jing...
To me it seems like TSJ and XY is a love story that exists in theory and not practice?
I often feel like she's most naturally attracted to xiang liu and keeps trying to suppress it. Also it seems like they have a stronger personality connection/bond despite Xiang Liu being an asshole to her a lot of times. I feel like they both could relate to each other more than TSJ and XY.
even as wen xiaoliu I could feel her attraction towards him. and she seems most happiest with him.
Tushan Jings love is sort of like a response to the care she gave him and for saving his life. It seems like an obligation or debt. And when she proposes to her in the beginning she seems to just considers it pragmatically. and sort of wills herself to love him because he pledged himself to never abandon her. Otherwise she's only ever seen him as the guy she saved and a good companion. And on top of the red flag that he proposed to her without a solid plan to break his engagement, he never told her that he knew she was a woman. I don't get the vibe that he's enraptured by her personality. More like he was grateful she saved him and that because she was a woman he sort of imprinted on her (borrowing twilight vocab lol) . And over time his gratefulness to her is what makes him love her.
and yes...i thought it was hilarious too that he's supposedly the best chess player in town but can't seem to use any of those skills in real life.
and from Xiaoyaos side it seems like she's trying to make the love happen because on paper tushan jing is such a good guy . i can't see the passion or chemistry. it feels like an arranged marriage where both parties try their best to like the other. Whereas with xiang liu their connection is palpable. I get the feeling that xiaoyao is lying to herself and doesn't realise how much of her own feelings she suppressed.
I don't like that he mistreated her a lot in the beginning but they have a lovely chemistry...
with cangxuan, it's sad. I do feel for him. it's pretty clear xiaoyao will never see him in that light. But at the same time her loyalty to him is the strongest. It was nice seeing beautiful sibling love. Also while it's hurtful for cangxuan, he has strong sibling love and attachment towards her. and I like that they show that, that sort of love is not inferior to romantic love. People think it doesn't exist but I've seen it in my own family. My dad is very close to his sister. Unfortunately my mum suffered because he always put her first (they had an arranged marriage. I think you can guess my ethnicity hah ).
I think it's beautiful and a testament to how pure cangxuans love is that he loves her and protects her as a brother.
and they're in a catch 22. to protect her he needs to marry many women from powerful families and can't be her one and only. if she accepts him, he can't give her the life she wants.
I really like his portrayal. despite desiring her as a romantic partner, he doesn't seem lecherous. I can feel brotherly love from him for the most part.
tushan jing also comes across as spineless and overly polite.
when he was ye shiqi and came to know xiang liu was bullying her, he'd sort of just accept it and be tormented by it. I just don't like that reaction...maybe someone else can explain it better.
overall I really felt nothing for him. when he died, when he had a kid ...nothing...
Thanks for your comment. It's an impressive screed that's for sure.
For me it feels like Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao is the classic romantic pairing. It's the bad first impressions which leads to some antagonism which after plenty of negotiation results in a more equal dynamic. Without some measure of conflict between a couple, the relationship doesn't feel tested and developed.
I am glad I saw your post. Honestly, you will probably hate Jing in the novel more lol. Jing is really an unlikable character, he is quite manipulative and two faced. He appears to be good but just a scoundrel who will never let XY grow without the need to be in control. He wants her to be within his reach. But his character was improved in the drama, so it kinda made it worst again. The acting was not giving for this character.
As for Xiang Liu, he got downgraded. Portrayed as harsh but XL is an aloof type and quite cold but definitely the warmest inside. I wished this drama didn’t remove all XY and XLs pivotal moments because in the book XY actually loves him and just uses Jing to cover her feelings since she knew he is not the man suitable to dream. But she dreamed of him.
The author loves Xiang Liu and I can feel it by the way she develops his character from ground to up. You’re right they are people who are called to make greater sacrifice. And in this book, it is XL. He is meant to end the war and conflict to bring security and for people to move forward.
I wished the drama made a back story of the war far more. People will get the story better. XL is a bred of war and has witnessed death.so his decisions doesn’t revolve to one person.
XL is the second the general of Chengrong the first was XY’s biological father. Which he happens to know as well.
I'm glad you came by and put forward your POV. I too had a sense that Tushan Jing could be seen as being manipulative because he wants to have a bet each way. But in the drama he definitely comes across to me as weak and lacking in conviction. It is interesting and thanks for bringing this to my attention that the novel is far more sophisticated and nuanced than I've been led to believe.
Thanks for your comment.